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Post subject: Re: Ramadan Musings
 Posted: Dec 01, 2002 - 09:58 AM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 22
Location: Redmond, Washington, U.S.A.
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Anonymous wrote:
Hello, Heidi here.
Was the post by Rachman the same one who was at Menucha? If so, I would just like to tell you how wonderful it was to spend time with you there, during Ramadan. Often (in my group anyway) there is not much interaction between the young and the older members (not that I'm saying you are old...). It was refreshing to have someone more experienced to talk to about Ramadan, Subud, and to hear about your experiences.
Yes, Heidi, it is me! Thank you for your wonderful words! It proves that wisdom is not just for the old. It was also wonderful to spend time with you and the other younger folk. You wrote an email talking all about how you felt a renewed hope in the youth at Menucha, but I also felt a renewed hope in what the more experienced members have to offer young people. I think that it is difficult for young people these days, hearing all about Bapak and everything that happened when he was alive (or not hearing about it). Our experiences of Subud will be quite different from that of the older members.
That is true, but not necessarily less powerful. We all receive from the same source and in accordance with our own inner capacity. Those of us who were able to be around Bapak had a certain kind of experience. Perhaps we needed that direct link for our own survival, but since Bapak has gone, the latihan has not diminished and we are slowly learning to follow our own receiving. I think that we (the young and the older) should discuss what we have to offer each other. Young people are very mobile and energetic...why not offer an older member a ride to latihan? Take them grocery shopping or go for a coffee. Now that is a great idea! Take an old person out for coffee! Actually, when I was about your age we did that a lot in San Francisco. We would all cram into a place called The Portofino in Ghirardelli Square and have a great time talking about Subud and other things. There was an older member who was an opera singer who motivated us to do that. It was fun! The older members should be looking to the young members as an investment. Young people could benefit greatly from many experiences, but may not be able to do it on their own. What would it take to send a young person in your group to something like Menucha? Help young people to be involved.
We have done that many times before, and even have an assistance fund for that purpose. I even contributed to it this year!
This Ramadan has gone quickly for me so far, but it seems often I have had Subud on the brain. How to grow Subud?....What can I do to help that? In my everyday life? I think that we as a community have so much to offer each other, we should start to think about that.
I have been thinking and feeling a lot about that also. It seems very important at this time, not only to me but to many others in our group. We are setting up a web site for our group and are even proceeding with the idea of a Subud public access tv show in our area! I would like younger members to be involved in that. I have also been thinking about the state of the world, and come to the conclusion that I have to just start to help. Even if it seems like it is completely overwhelming...a very small thing such as smiling more can make a difference. I think human beings are in a very precarious state. At no time in history has the impact of Subud and the latihan been more needed! We cannot hide anymore! We must share what we have received with the rest of the world. I have never received that message stronger than right now.
Heidi, it was great meeting you at Menucha. Keep up the dancing!b]  Asking God how is it in my everyday life when I am guided by the power of God? This is a test that needs no "finish" 
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2002 - 06:06 AM
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One good thing about Ramadan is that ten or so days into it all this extraneous navel gazing naturally dies down.
Love,
BryanBurhan |
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Post subject: Ramadhan advice...
Posted: Dec 01, 2002 - 04:48 AM
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| Re: Laura's msg of Nov 8, I think the advice was that we not use our emotions to "react to" the emotions of others - try to not be drawn into other people's emotional whirlpools. Hope y'all have a good 1. Rohiid |
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Post subject: Ramadan Musings
Posted: Nov 27, 2002 - 05:05 AM
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Hello, Heidi here.
Was the post by Rachman the same one who was at Menucha? If so, I would just like to tell you how wonderful it was to spend time with you there, during Ramadan. Often (in my group anyway) there is not much interaction between the young and the older members (not that I'm saying you are old...). It was refreshing to have someone more experienced to talk to about Ramadan, Subud, and to hear about your experiences.
You wrote an email talking all about how you felt a renewed hope in the youth at Menucha, but I also felt a renewed hope in what the more experienced members have to offer young people. I think that it is difficult for young people these days, hearing all about Bapak and everything that happened when he was alive (or not hearing about it). Our experiences of Subud will be quite different from that of the older members.
I think that we (the young and the older) should discuss what we have to offer each other. Young people are very mobile and energetic...why not offer an older member a ride to latihan? Take them grocery shopping or go for a coffee. The older members should be looking to the young members as an investment. Young people could benefit greatly from many experiences, but may not be able to do it on their own. What would it take to send a young person in your group to something like Menucha? Help young people to be involved.
This Ramadan has gone quickly for me so far, but it seems often I have had Subud on the brain. How to grow Subud?....What can I do to help that? In my everyday life? I think that we as a community have so much to offer each other, we should start to think about that.
I have also been thinking about the state of the world, and come to the conclusion that I have to just start to help. Even if it seems like it is completely overwhelming...a very small thing such as smiling more can make a difference. Asking God how is it in my everyday life when I am guided by the power of God? This is a test that needs no "finish" |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 19, 2002 - 10:45 AM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Nov 13, 2002
Posts: 22
Location: Redmond, Washington, U.S.A.
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I can relate to the idea of the fast as a gift. Sometimes even if we have the intention to fast, it does not happen. When your inner does not allow you to fast for some reason, it helps one to realize what a gift it is to be able to do it!
I have done the Ramadan fast for many years, and have experienced all kinds of things at different times. For several years I received a new business opportunity at the end of the fast. Each one led me along a different way in developing in the material world.
Sometimes I have received weird spiritual experiences. Once when I was doing latihan in the last part of Ramadan I allowed myself to feel anger toward another Subud member. This seemed to open a way into my self for a spirit to come in and I felt as if I was possessed. I remember going into the bathroom and seeing myself in the mirror and screaming at what I saw! Luckily this experience did not last long, but it made me realize how important it was for me to stay in a quiet peaceful state and not direct bad feelings toward others.
Sometimes the fast has been uneventful with the exception of some very subtle realization about myself or others that I did not see before. Sometimes a feeling of great joy comes along with some revelation or other.
When Ramadan approaches each year, part of me says "Uh, oh, do I have to do this again?!", but another part of me sees and feels the huge Blessing that is coming!
It is an amazing period, a time of cleaning out all the inner cobwebs and lower forces crap that has accumulated during the year. It is a time of re-balancing when our feelings are influenced too much by the material/vegetable/animal world.
Last year I had a feeling to write my life story and did a good chunk of it during the fast. Since then I have not added a thing!
This year I have been having feelings about Subud and how to help it develop. I have been receiving little practical things, like adding Subud links to my web site and carrying old collectible Subud books on it to spread the possiblilities of someone seeing the name and becoming curious about it. These may seem like small things, but sometimes even small things are difficult to actually carry out! I have noticed that even impossible things are not so impossible during the fast.
Good fasting to you all!
Rachman Cantrell, Seattle Eastside, USA |
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Post subject: A Ramadhan Experience
Posted: Nov 18, 2002 - 02:43 AM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Jun 30, 2002
Posts: 17
Location: Perth
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Helo all,
My name is Robin Wyllie and i am a 23 yo male currently living in Melbourne, Australia. I thought i would share a little of my ramadhan experience with you too...
I decided that i would fast from eating but still drink water as i was still studying, although on a slightly lesser work load. I am a dance student and dance students sweat a lot, we need water! (although whilst fasting i was told a story of how some members of a National Ballet Company observed and followed all customs of the fast whilst in rehearsal for 'The Nutcracker'! And i will never forget teaching English to a little girl in Kalimantan who was six years old and fasting all day. Two things i kept in my head when things got a bit tough).
I also experienced feelings similar to the early ones posted by benedict.
Prior to the start of ramadhan I had been involved in the creation and rehearsal of our end of year performance season. The process had been very difficult, there had been personality clashes, both voiced and unsaid, within the group for most of the year, i had difficulties accepting the choreographers process etc. Most of these performance workshops were extremely negative and draining experiences for myself and others.
When i was fasting however i felt very happy, almost joyful, to be within that class room. Very light. I felt people were closer and the feeling within the class changed. People became more cooperative, giving and loving towards each other. I know it may be possible that my owm blissful state was influencing my perception of the class but i honestly feel that the actions and inner feeling of the rest of the class were different and a lot more harmonious.
Early in the fast my house was broken into. It had happened before and last time was quite shocking but this time i felt quite calm and returned to a normal, balanced state quite quickly. Last time it took a long time before i felt safe in my house, this time i slept soundly the same night that it happened.
Something else happened however, that stopped my fast, and i didn't think i would stop. This was my first attempt at doing full length fasting from food. I give this account so that perhaps others can empathise with and acknowledge it if the need arises and continue with their fast as i did not have the strength to continue with mine.
I had a terrible ballet class where lot's of self criticism, loathing, questioning etc came to the surface. After it finished I started to question my beliefs, started to feel angry with perceived injustices that i had been subjected to in the past and was subjected to in the present. It was only midday and yet i knew i was going home and i was going to eat.
I went home and i ate without much thought to reverence for the food. And so ended the first part of my fast. Since then i have continued to eat during the day. I don't have the feelings of fasting contentment and do feel a little lost as i don't have the confirmation that what i am doing in my daily life is a holy act. A few days later, for the first time in six months, i drank alcohol, to celebrate the opening of our performace season, even though i thought i would never drink again. I woke the next day feeling very horrible and guilty. It took me a few days to recover.
There were other emotions that seemed to be worthy of attention also.
Add to this  that i had fallen for one of the dancers within our school who i had only spoken to once. I had been aware of her during school and felt to be with her but now saw more of her as we were in the same production. Being a rather shy and inexperienced man when it comes to girl matters i have spent days deliberating on how i could properly meet this girl. I'll ask her to the movies, no that's silly, no it's not, yes i'll ask her today, no i can't i am silly, i don't even know her, it's a fantasy, it's not real, it is real, how do you know when it's real, she is right, it is not right, , she is good for me, i am not good enough for her, she is beautiful etc etc Oh it's quite funny when you look at it this way i guess!!
It's almost like a game of soul 'Twister' when you look at it like this! Trying to put all your servants in the right places, sometime being driven by command, sometimes perceived neccesity, other times just moving where it feels right, trusting it will be for the best.
Sorry got carried away there, i'm not fasting at the moment so it can happen, life isn't really like twister, it is far more special, forgive me fasty people if i negatively impact on your states. Perhaps i will just provide an example of how not to be and then this will help you!
So people learn from me, one that this time fell by the wayside!! Try and stay calm and focussed when the naf's launch their attacks. I still believe in God and the benefits of the ramadhan but this time i have been faced with my weaknesses, which i have heard is also one of the effects of the fast, but was unable to locate my strength and how to use it.
Perhaps i may start the fast at a later date, it would almost feel like a gift for me actually.
Two things i have learnt during the fast (there are other things but i'll just write two). The first i learnt while writing the sentence above - the ramadhan fast can be felt as a gift. See it as a gift. Secondly the latihan can work in ways that we are not aware of but on some level can always be seen.
Hope you all have a beautiful fast,
God Bless.
Robin. |
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Post subject: Ramadanbuddy hang on...
Posted: Nov 17, 2002 - 06:39 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 60
Location: Copenhagen
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Hi Benedict.
Just read your article, and I totally know how you feel when you say you're the only one to join ramadan... It's the same for me here in Denmark, only two other people I know(beside people in Subud) are fasting and they're both muslims. It's funny to see how ignorant normal people can be, most young people I know just CAN'T IMAGINE how they could manage with out food for a whole day!!!!!
Well I can't do anything but laugh and pull up my shoulders, how can I expect for them to understand that it is good for the soul? None of the people I knew from school and now work, are in Subud, they've never heard of it, and I don't expect them to understand... anyway I think you fast for your own sake and not for others, and that's why I don't care about if others joined or not, all I know is that I can stand up for what I do, and if other people feel the same, it's great:)
Last year I also tried to fast, I wasn't opened then(got opened in Engalnd at the congress this summer). I did it then because of my close friends(muslim, not danish) joined ramadan, and the rest of my class gave her a hard time, because they couldn't understand. I thought I'd better try it before I could say anything about it or critisise it. It only lasted for something like week because my mother thought I lost too much weight.
This year I joined because I wanted to, and because I wanted to feel the change in my inner... And it's funny what a difference it made that I'm opened!!
In a latihan I had after a few days I received the meaning with ramadan. It was SO funny, just like doing latihan in a village in Africa:)
It gives sence in an inner way, sort of speak!
Well I'm loosing a lot of weight again, so I might stop before time, I'm allready quite skinny, and don't want to faint at work! But now I truly understand what kind of effect it has on you(spiritually not physically).
I'll end it here, thanks for posting this topic, it's a good one...
Lots of love
Irina |
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Post subject: Ramadanning
Posted: Nov 16, 2002 - 10:01 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Carbondale, IL, USA
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Benedict here once again,
it is afternoon on 11 Ramadan. Now into the second little phase... the passions are now completely inactive, and now is the period of becoming aware that our actions are guided by our inner self.
So I'm told.
To be quite honest, the past few days, I haven't felt very 'fast' at all (if you will).
This morning I woke up quite late. (Sometime after 1pm). I guess I've been struggling with this thing for a while, trying not to eat, trying to wake up before dawn (which seems quite impossible; even when I set my alarm for 5, I wake up at 9...) and trying to follow all the little rules that I've heard of.
Lately I've been coming to realize -- to re-realize -- that the rules are pointless without the inner component behind them. Someone once said "Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men." I've been concentrating too much on the rules. The hardest part is to actually maintain quiet within one's self, to keep returning to that inwardly peaceful space, to just listen to your own inner guidance and nothing else. And of course, the hardest part is the most important part.
I wrote before about the outer stuff being window dressing for the true reality... I have found time and again how easy it is to forget the things that I keep trying to remind myself of.
I think, the one piece that I sorta forgot about... that turns out to be rather important... is to get up in the morning, and be quiet, and make a promise and intention for the day. It's quite different, I feel... if you're just trying to do the fast-y things, than if you're sincerely following a promise to yourself, and to God. If I'm just doing fastey things, it comes and goes... but if I remember that I have made a promise to myself, and if I renew that promise every day... I can hold myself to that.
So, such have I done today.
Not eating, sleeping less... sure, it's better to do those things, but they mean nothing without the sincere promise.
I'm also trying to take out some time to just sit and be quiet again... whenever I Feel myself straying away a bit... even as I'm doing all these postings and writings. Trying to Sit, Be Quiet, And Do Nothing All Day is perhaps a bit unrealistic, or at least beyond my capacity at this point. Besides, the point of latihan is to allow us to live in the world, ya? And Ramadan is just an extention of that Latihan goal.
So, I suppose I'm done for now.
Until next time,
your friendly neighbourhood Benedict |
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Post subject: Ramadan
Posted: Nov 16, 2002 - 09:27 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Carbondale, IL, USA
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To: SYAtalk@topica.com
From: Heidi Hitchcock <heidihitch@shaw.ca>
Subject: [SyaTalk] Ramadan
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:13:52 -0800
Hello to all!
I went on a spontaneous trip to Menucha this past weekend. Menucha is a Subud gathering that happens each year at a retreat centre just outside Portland, Oregon. I wanted to share my experience…
I woke up on the second day of fasting to my mother on the phone, asking if I wanted to go to Menucha. A Subud member had arrived unexpectedly at their house the night before, and asked my mom if she knew of anyone who might need a ride there. She was leaving on the ferry to Port Angeles, Washington, in half an hour. I sat up in bed and out of my mouth came the word “YES”, even before I could think. I was still half asleep as I hung up the phone and realized what I had just said.
I called my boss on his cell phone to ask if I could have the next two days off work to go to a conference. Amazingly, he said yes. I threw a few things in a bag and apologized to my dog for leaving so soon after coming back from my week away in Colorado. I arranged for my parents to have my roommate over for dinner, so she wouldn’t have to break fast all alone. I told my boyfriend that I had to follow my feeling and just go…and apologized for leaving him with the dog.
My parents drove me to the ferry, and I went on as a walk-on passenger, to meet Deanna on the ferry. As I boarded, I prayed that she made it through customs. We met up right away, and endured a 2 hour rocky boat ride. She was also fasting, so our drive was very peaceful. I had a faint worry in my mind about the fact that I had not registered, I didn’t know if I would have a place to sleep or any food, but I followed my feeling anyway.
We arrived at Menucha around 4:30pm, just as it started getting dark. I went to the registration table, and found that my mom had emailed to warn them I was coming without notice. I was given a meal ticket for the dinner, and a stern talking to about why I should register ahead of time…and they sent me to the barn dorm to unpack. Was I ever grateful! At that moment I loved everyone, and I was amazed that God had given me such a gift.
The weekend was perfect. Latihan was all around, and happened twice a day! This was the first time Menucha had coincided with Ramadan, and it felt very peaceful. During the opening circle, it became clear that peace was a big part of the reason we were all gathered together. About one third of the people were doing Ramadan, so Saur was shared by about 30 or so, between 3 and 4 am. I found that I was able to sleep fast all except one night there, without any effort at all. Hunger was exchanged for latihan, and I found that my “lower forces” were very quiet (for once!). How easy it is to do Ramadan when you are surrounded by people doing latihan all day!
Anyway, my story is too long, so I will end it here…the weekend was beautiful, and left me hopeful that I would survive the rest of Ramadan, and retain the feeling of peace I was left with. It is hard with the current state of the world and all the fighting, and all the distraction that is thrown at us every day, to remember why this fast is so important. This weekend, I felt like I was making a difference, contributing to the feeling of peace and quieting of the emotions that others all around the world are feeling at this time. You do not have to do something great to help the world, just attempt peace in your own life.
Thank you for letting me share my thoughts ~ I hope everyone is finding a little peace and quiet this Ramadan.
Love,
Heidi |
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Post subject: Re: Ramadan and Emotions
Posted: Nov 16, 2002 - 09:23 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Carbondale, IL, USA
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To: SYAtalk@topica.com
From: Miriam Ponette <solaimiriam@hotmail.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 05:35:19 +0000
"not use your emotions to reach the emotions or passions
>>of others" --
Hi all and Laura;
I think I might understand the thing about reaching others' emotions and passions through our emotions and not our souls. I've found emotion to be a much harder thing to dissect from my soul-feeling than to differentiate my brain from my soul. But when I'm feeling the latihan really strongly, I feel really quiet inside and lately I tend to act quieter too. Actually in general I've been a lot quieter lately than is normal for me, and I find myself choosing not to express myself, even when I have something good or interesting to say- I often lately just prefer to stay quiet, whereas before I thought it would be really beneficial to be super open and to share myself with others- because it might effect some positive change or growth in them. So maybe this new sense of quiet, and it does feel very latihanish, is due to my becoming less controlled by my emotions, so I don't find it so necessary to 'reach people' in that way. I've been getting more comments lately than ever about how I've 'reached people', and it's been a real shock considering that it happened when I finally shut up! Love Miriam. |
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Post subject: to Laura, Re: Ramadan and Emotions
Posted: Nov 16, 2002 - 09:17 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Carbondale, IL, USA
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HI Laura, Melinda [Wallis] here.see comments below.
At 02:25 AM 11/9/02 -0600, you wrote:
> I.. what I struggle most with is Bapak's advice to "not use your
> emotions to reach the emotions or passions of others" -- I haven't
> entirely figured out what that means exactly.
I'm still working on that one too. I think you oughta find out the answers to those questions below by testing for yourself. "What's the right way to be with the kids during Ramadan?
I used to have library programs (art with kids) scheduled for 5pm at various libraries around here. When I'd been fasting all day it was a challenge! I'd have to decide whether to break fast early,or just soldier on through. What evolved was that I'd get myself and my materials into the library,and set up, meanwhile praying for the energy to do the class/program, and
boom! the ol latihan energy would come into me strongly and I'd get to do the class from that.
In the end, that energy would start to wain,and I'd often just barely make it into the car before I'd crash! (as soon as I didn't need that energy hit any longer,it was gone.
VERY interesting training!.
> What about positive emotions? I read in one of Bapak's talks that to
> dwell or think or about anything too much, even if it is a good thing can
> break your fast. That seems sooo difficult. So being calm, quiet, and
> placid is important during Ramadan..
I don't know abut PLACID. I think its perfectly possible to be calm IN YOUR FEELINGS, and be animated and energetic outwardly.
I even know how to SOUND mad, but not FEEL mad. It's a matter of voice projection!
> . but how do you keep things so calm, quiet and placid as an elementary
> school teacher, when you need to engage your students to help them
> learn, otherwise you find them quite understandably bored, poor things.
> Or in any other job, for that matter. What is the proper place of
> emotions during the fast? What's the proper expression of love?
> Hmmmm.... just musings.
> Maybe it's most important to distinguish from what place your
> emotions arise...?
I think this is a key. The observing.
I gradually gained the impression that Ramadan isn't to make us perfect.(hoho).It's more so that we can observe ourselves,to be aware of where we're coming from, to SEE some more reality of our own self and behaviors.
(and often the shock of seeing a condition or behavior is enough to make me willing for it to change! )
Example:
The first day of this Ramadan,I became so aware of the kind of sarcastic/cynical American humor that I and others indulge in,on a daily basis. I saw us doing it,and was SO AWARE of it...and it wasn't a pretty sight!
Love from Seattle,
Melinda |
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Post subject: Re: Ramadan and Emotions
Posted: Nov 16, 2002 - 09:09 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Carbondale, IL, USA
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[from Benedict again,]
Dear Laura (and everyone else),
One of the things I thought of at the very beginning, was that I wasn't going to get everything right. I'm going to mess up, I'm going to accidentally break the fast, I'm going to slip up, repeatedly. But that's all part of the journey and the learning process. It's totally fine. I feel, that all that is truly necessary is persistence.
As far as the emotions... that's a very good question and an interesting issue. *smile*
One thing that comes to mind, a quote of Bapak's, something like: "Most mistakes are made by people when they are very, very happy." You said it yourself, Laura, about recognizing from where your emotions arise... I think the point of this whole thing is the same as one of the main goals of the latihan; to not be driven by your emotions (whatever emotions they are), and instead to drive your own self.
As far as being an elementary school teacher... it'll probably do the kids some good if their teacher is trying as best she can to do everything from a place of peace and goodness from the truest part of herself... the point of the quiet is to give the junk that's usually always in the way a chance to slide out of the way for a while. As far as Love... I feel that "the Essence of God" is what Real Love truly is. Of course there's all sorts of other emotions that get in the way -- especially when a boy and a girl are trying to fall in love with each other -- but a lot of that is just garbage. When you feel Real Love... you know it, you don't have to doubt it anymore. (At least that seems right to me... don't you think?) The point of this whole mess -- Ramadan, Subud, latihan, all of it -- is to get back in touch with that essence that's in the middle of all Creation. And I think Love is in the middle of That. I even read in a Bapak talk just a couple days ago, that one of the things that happens with Ramadan is that you start to feel love towards your "fellow man". The point of it is to bring humanity a little bit closer together. Tap back into that creation stuff, and with that comes the idea that we are all truly the same, brothers and sisters.
About the "don't use your emotions to reach the emotions or passions of others," that one jumped out at me as really weird, too. (Maybe I've already said something about that,) maybe it's just about putting aside all the mechanics that you use to run in the world every day... give a chance for the real you to step out, stretch out, walk around and get the feel of things inside your being. To drum up an analogy of Bapak's: to let the dog bones and pieces of garbage recede out of your house for a while, so you can get in the door and live in the place for a while. At least to visit... for thirty days or so... give or take.
About "even dwelling on good things can break your fast", that just goes back to being wrapped up in any worldly things... when you're supposed to be ... not wrapped up.
I feel like I'm overstating myself... maybe I'm trying to be too profound. So I'll stop for now.
SOMEONE ELSE INTERJECT PLEASE!!
Share the Love!!! Spread the Budhi!!!!!!!
Thank you.
Love, (from Carbondale, Illinois)
your friendly neighbourhood Benedict |
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Post subject: Ramadan and Emotions
Posted: Nov 16, 2002 - 09:04 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Carbondale, IL, USA
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From: "Laura Ramsey" <lauraramsey@hotmail.com>
To: wanzer@siu.edu
Subject: Ramadan and Emotions
Date: Fri, 08 Nov 2002 12:51:26 -0600
Nice, Benedict, thank you. I enjoyed reading this. I completely identify with the nafsu making themselves known as soon as you focus your intent on quietening them. Or maybe we just become more aware of their presence in our everyday lives. And it was a good reminder for me to read about the inner fast being more important than the outer... to me it seems much harder, too. It's easy for me to forget about food... what I struggle most with is Bapak's advice to "not use your emotions to reach the emotions or passions of others" -- I haven't entirely figured out what that means exactly. What about positive emotions? I read in one of Bapak's talks that to dwell or think or about anything too much, even if it is a good thing can break your fast. That seems sooo difficult. So being calm, quiet, and placid is important during Ramadan... but how do you keep things so calm, quiet and placid as an elementary school teacher, when you need to engage your students to help them learn, otherwise you find them quite understandably bored, poor things. Or in any other job, for that matter. What is the proper place of emotions during the fast? What's the proper expression of love? Hmmmm.... just musings. Maybe it's most important to distinguish from what place your emotions arise...? Any thoughts? Feel free to post.
Love from Houston,
*Laura Ramsey
"In my dream, the angel shrugged and said, if we fail this time, it will be a failure of imagination, and then she placed the world gently in the palm of my hand."
-- Brian Andreas, The Story People |
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Post subject: My First Ramadan (Some Ramadan Musings)
Posted: Nov 16, 2002 - 08:58 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Aug 09, 2002
Posts: 10
Location: Carbondale, IL, USA
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(The following is an email I sent to the sya servers, some thoughts of mine on my first Ramadan experience, as it's happening. Which will be followed by a few responses to that, from the syatalk list.
-Benedict)
("My First Ramadan"...sounds like the title of a children's book)
This was supposed to be a "Day 1", but I guess I'm not writing it til Day 2... though it kinda feels like Day 3, because the day and night before number 1 sortof felt like a pre-Ramadan day (Day 0, maybe)... anyway, I suppose I'll begin at the beginning, and go from there.
Yesterday was a very odd day.
the first night (before yesterday; Day 0) I took a shower and everything, washed all the inches of my person, cut toenails, trimmed goatbeard, shaved, etcetra. I set my alarm for 4am... I think I didn't go to sleep til sometime after 1.
During the day... things just felt different. I just felt kinda good. I felt a sense of closeness to all my friends, my teacher, the people in my classes... just kinda warm and squishy. It started the day before, a little bit, but now it was quite palpable.
And it kinda seemed as the rest of the world was different as well. All three of my classes got out a little early -- people seemed to just be in a weird mood. The sky was sunny, for the first time after many days of unbroken overcast gloominess. And walking home after class... I don't know if I was just feeling kinda high or something... I thought that the world, the things around me -- even myself -- seemed somehow more real. A little harder, crisper, more tangible... I don't know how to describe it, it's hard to put words on these things.
I also seem to notice, that these things -- demons, lower forces, habits, whatever -- seem to be fine until you try to put them down for a minute... and then they jump at you with a vengance. I don't remember feeling ore tired in all my life than I was yesterday morning. My brain was churning up all kinds of things from sex to whatever.
Although, (I'm just remembering this again) yesterday when I got home in the afternoon; part of it was being tired from walking, but I just sat down, and felt rather relaxed... and it felt like my brain had switched off. I tried to read a few emails, and it was like I couldn't concentrate enough to finish a sentence. I guess it was kinda cool.
I had sort of decided, that I was gonna do the sleep fasting part, but not totally stop eating -- I'm thin as a rail already. Yesterday I was trying to eat as little as possible -- my stomach was rather loud during class.
But the interesting part of this is that when I did eat a tiny bit, I noticed that I felt different... like the "fasting high" had faded slightly. I've done prihatin a few times before, not eating for a whole day, but I've never noticed that kind of change in feeling before... not as acutely.
And so I suppose I come now to "Day 2".
My alarm is still set for 4 am (I think I fell asleep between 12 and 1 last night; which is close to my usual bedtime), but I didn't actually get up until 7:something... I think I notice right away that it's different. Not nearly as high. Getting up I almost felt grumpy -- no, actually I was grumpy -- at not having some time in the morning in absolute quiet. The sun was up and everything, and my roommates got up soon after. (It's about 9am now.) I did my best to try to get quiet before I started writing this... I suppose the lesson I've already learned from this is that I have to take some more care in paying attention to this fast. Not only sleeping as little as possible, eating as little as possible... but really staying in that calm quiet space inside. And that's the point of the sleeping-eating thing, to get you into a quieter space than you would otherwise. It makes sense that if you're not eating while you're doing your daily life, then you're not "feeding" the lower forces... probably the not-sleeping does the same sort of thing. I did a test yesterday morning, "how would God have me observe this Ramadan outwardly?" and then "...inwardly?" And although it didn't really make much sense... I think the point that came across was that the inner aspect is a whole lot more important than the outer-- it's all about the inside stuff. Thinking about it know, maybe it means that I need to stop worrying about "what I'm supposed to do during Ramadan" and just stay quiet and do the rest of it as it comes to me. I realize as I'm doing this that the innermost part of me already knows how to do this, at least it knows the most important part, the germ of reality behind the structure of appearances. It seems like this time around Ramadan just chose me -- I wasn't planning on doing it, I wasn't even really thinking about it... I just kept getting emails about it, found out when it was -- and talking to fellow Subudian friends online -- and when the date showed up it was just like "...okay I guess I'm doing Ramadan." Not premeditated at all, just when the moment showed up it feels like the right thing to do. Not only that, it feels like I really need to do this, that it's rather important for me. Who knew?
I'm finding already that doing this alone is very hard. Not only with two "muggles" for roommates (if I may use the term, affectionately and non-disparagingly) -- I haven't even been able to successfully explain Subud to them yet; we'll see what happens -- but also to not have any Subud members around. (I suppose if I really wanted to find Ramadanners I could go to the local Muslim community... but somehow I don't think I need to do that.) It helps to be able to talk to some people on the internet (and the phone, as much as my wallet will allow)... and I guess that's why I had the idea to write this little thing. Get some cross-feedback going on... exchange of ideas and stories and energies.
(As far as the logistics go; if we're gonna discuss and share stores -- ie, send lots of emails back and forth (which is what I want) -- then we need to do it on the list syatalk@topica.com -- if you're not subscribed, then send a blank email to syatalk-subscribe@topica.com .
Also, I figure I'll post this (and subsequent musings) on www.subudlife.com . It seems like a fine place for exchange over the internet... and it doesn't get used often enough yet. (Yet.)
(I'm also wondering if there's away to sortof combine the functionalities of a list server and a message board... so people could subscribe to a list (like this one) but also be able to go to the website and look up the past discussions, and post from there... I already mentioned this to the subudlife folks... does anyone else have any ideas or knowledges?)
And everyone, please; if you want to discuss -- and you DO want to discuss -- lets do it on syatalk ... and when I write any more of these things it'll be on there. This one is just on here to get a spark going. (If you reply to this it'll go back only to me; if you want I can then forward it to syatalk... and replies to messages on that list will go back to the
whole list.)
I believe I'll close for now... (need to get ready for class, anyway)
Lets all start talking again, shall we? Take advantage of the Ramadan juice.
Love, from the bottom of my jiwa,
Benedict
(your friendly neighbourhood Syausa co-chair)
- - - - - - -
"Every passing minute is another chance to turn it all around." Sophia
Serrano |
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