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Post subject: Why do 'I' do the latihan?
 Posted: May 03, 2003 - 01:12 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Posts: 295
Location: 世界 Shijie
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Why do 'I' do the latihan?
How often do We/I actually ask anything like this?
How much is life about routine, and how much is it about a constant challenge to be and do.....
Life and human beings are so very complex. People come from many very different places, and yet we all seem to meet somewhere in a shared reality.
Without this becoming an intellectual bat and ball, I want to see if we can openly share why we do the latihan and how much we manage to realise our latihan both in doing it and doing it outside of going quiet and receiving - in our everyday lives.
So lets share away:
I am 26 and was opened at 17. I was effectively brain washed, it seemed the right thing to do, a natural progression of my primary socialisation. I can't say I have had a defining receiving or revelation that helps me to see/feel the reality of the latihan. At about 19 I guess I went through a sense of major doubt and adjusted myself to an independent realisation of why I do the latihan. Yet I cannot say with any real certainty why I continue to do it.
Much of the time I don't mange to place/surrender my thoughts and anxieties about life when I do my latihan. This is essentially where I am at after nearly 10 years. I put faith in the power of something greater than my head to be working on me regardless, and when I do manage to relax and find a regular sense of quiet then the latihan will be able to enter every facet of my being.
Until then, in many ways, it is the quality of my life, the ideas, deep feelings that shape my being and view(s) of the world, that guide me in a sense of God in my life. I do feel very strongly something ticking/flowing existing about me. Its a strong and very ardent feeling. A sense of calm truth does envelope my being, but I still cannot say with any certainty or peace that I know of God, or any higher force. Perhaps there is the mind and intellectual being and then there is my feelings. Me Harun is amalgamation of the two. A controlled calm, and an effortless and natural reality.
All that I know for certain is that its a beautiful and long haul.
I reckon most people in Subud are not so very different. I am keen to find out what it is that is the energy or basis for why we do the latihan. Is it intellectual curisoity. A primordial sense of thirst and need to meet the essence of our being. Is it a need for direction. Is it a real drive. Is it a security mechanism. Is it because there is an imposing logic and I am fixed on a course of destiny... the list is probably endless.
Why do 'I' do the latihan? |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 03, 2003 - 03:28 PM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Feb 04, 2003
Posts: 33
Location: London
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Thanks for starting this topic, Harun.
I personally do the latihan because, as a first generation Subud member, I have forund it to be enormously beneficial to my life. The really significant change I have noticed is that the latihan has "made" me a better person, moraly, I mean. I find that I instinctively refrain from wrong doing to a much greater extent than before, because I am now more aware of the pain it causes my soul (I can feel it, and it hurts more), because I am much more in touch with my soul. It was always there, and I used to betray it, and suffer from that betrayal, but it was the latihan that enabled me to realise the spiritual consequences of my actions and the significance my spiritual health has on my happiness. I still have a long way to go...
I came to Subud as a searcher of something intangible, and I was sure that the latihan was precisely what I had been searching for. The organisation of Subud is in principle very compelling, but I have found that there is a distinct danger of it ceasing to progress, which has been a danger in the world's great religions, as this can lead to fundamentalism. It is man who creates religions, and I can see in the organisation of Subud that this is an instinctive compulsion for many people. (It is quite exasperating for me when Bapak's words are reated as a rule book - worse still a rule book to berate others with, as this is incongruous with the spirit of the organisation in my opinion.)
I have, however, realised that, although the general advice is not to mix, and that the latihan encompasses all that we need to do, if done in the right way, to develop ourselves sufficiently, it has occured to me, or rather I have realised for myself that there is something incomplete about the latihan for many people, including myself. Although I regard the latihan as an essential and unique tool in this life, for improving the condition of the human spirit, I also have a sense that I need to look beyond Subud in an effort to grow and understand my life, and be happier in it. infact, I need help in putting the latihan to work in my life. For many, religion fulfils this function. I am personally finding that there are many psychotherapeutic, educational, possibly "new-age" alternatives to religion, that fundamentally preach from the same pulpit, but in a variety of ways, often more useable to modern man. Many members I know find reading "conversations with God" or "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People" to be helpful. Others prefer "Psychology of Vision" courses, "The Landmark Forum course," or councelling." To some the value of these things is obvious, but for others, this might be seen as some kind of betrayal to the latihan, or else to God.
My own family, who are now mostly in Subud, experience again and again the same ancestral and karmic conditions which do not really belong to us as individuals. I personally find the idea of mixing (being involvement in other spiritual excercises) quite scary, and I can see the potential for harm and confusion. I have, however, found that therapies which centre around education of my psychological processes, which I am forced to abide with day in, day out, to be of enormous benefit, and I have found this to be a compatible counterpart to doing the latihan. Although the latihan is unique, in my experience, in that it effectively "removes" many unwholesome conditions within me, I feel that to become a person of value to God, I must develop myself outside of the latihan, and not create a future for myself so heavily influenced by the experiences of my past.
Anyway, back to the subject: A major motive for me to regularly attend latihan is to socialise. I think that this is common amongst most members, particularly the young. If I were in an isolated group, I wonder how often I'd go. Probably less. I see no fault in using this as a motivation. When I'm in latihan, the motivation is gone - I'm just doing my latihan. The thing is that it is sometimes the thing that gets me on the train to get there, and I think it is folly for us as an organisation to ignore what I believe is a principal function of the organisation - to be socially strong, attractive and fun as an organisation.
I go because it's a habit too, and one that is a dominating part of my life. It keeps me from wondering off into the wilderness. If i am a blind man wondering through the noisy and confusing streets, then the Monday latihan is the beep of the pedestrian crossing; Thursday's latihan the wall to bang my stick against. Without it doesn't bare thinking about...
Lucas |
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Post subject: WHY DO 'I' DO THE LATIHAN?
Posted: May 09, 2003 - 09:13 PM
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| Just be realized that we've come to the world because of the Creature or something accidently ??? let us contemplate !!! |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 12, 2003 - 10:40 PM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Feb 04, 2003
Posts: 33
Location: London
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Uh?
Anyway, come on everybody, why do YOU do the latihan?
Lucas |
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Post subject: Why do you do the latihan ?
Posted: May 13, 2003 - 07:41 PM
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I gave you the answer already" just be realized that we have come to the world because of the God ! So that's mean ...in my opinion your question is incorrect ! you may ask manything about a job, music, animal and etc ..etc which related to the 4 lower forces in generally .
Like the babies ...they never ask " why do I do the latihan ?" and we passed already at that moment ...then have you still remember at that time you were asking something....and the answer is absolutely I don't think so because of your qustion ( topic ) came from your brain not from your jiwa ! |
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Post subject: Re: Why do you do the latihan ?
Posted: May 13, 2003 - 09:31 PM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Feb 04, 2003
Posts: 33
Location: London
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Anonymous wrote:
I gave you the answer already" just be realized that we have come to the world because of the God ! So that's mean ...in my opinion your question is incorrect ! you may ask manything about a job, music, animal and etc ..etc which related to the 4 lower forces in generally .
Like the babies ...they never ask " why do I do the latihan ?" and we passed already at that moment ...then have you still remember at that time you were asking something....and the answer is absolutely I don't think so because of your qustion ( topic ) came from your brain not from your jiwa !
Why don't you register, or at least have the courtesy to sign a name (it doesn't even have to be your real one! It's very easy to "hit and run" on this type of forum, but more honourable to have courage in your comments and post your name by them.
I don't understand what you're saying, which leads me to think that you don't understand the original question. The question is simple - "Why do you do the latihan?" In other words, "What do you get out of it?" or "What is your motivation for doing the latihan?" Surely it's not a very accurate answer to say that you do the latihan because you were created by God. Otherwise, the whole world would do the latihan, which they clearly don't.
Perhaps you are being metaphysical in a way I haven't quite understood - perhaps you are using your head too much 
Lucas |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 13, 2003 - 10:53 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jul 14, 2002
Posts: 295
Location: 世界 Shijie
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Thanks for your two responses Sergio.
You are right, it does come from my brain/mind/head. But I am human.
Human Beings as 'I' and 'Self', must and do - to whatever degree - pose these kinds of questions. If we were pure spirit, then we would not take on organic form.
Alternatively, if our Jiwa's were so developed/ or our ability to surrender and be intouch with our inner feelings were greater, then we would not need to ask these questions. Philosophising would be redundant for oneself. Minds thirst for answers to ease the intellectual questions one can pose would be quenched.
Yet I know that I am not at that point. I know that very few if any of us are. So in essence, in order for myself to find the motivation or the raison d'etre to do the latihan I must satisfy my mind to some degree.
With more peace and more surrender in my latihan as the years progress, and my sincerety takes on new dimensions then the yearning and questions will be resolved. But as a young man, and I guess as even an old man, I ask and will continue to ask different questions. Maybe still continue to question even, why I do the Latihan. Hopefully, a calm, peace and wisdom, which is tappable at any time from within, will be all apparent.
It is just every day is a struggle to find one's centre and to find one's quiet to be at one with God and serve out one's purpose(s) on this Earth.
Harun. |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 14, 2003 - 03:25 PM
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Jiwa Dancer
Joined: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 19
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Sergio, if that's your real name, perhaps it's better that you don't take part in a discussion if you don't have a very good grasp of the language it's being written in? Especially when it's such a deep and broad issue such as this one. I don't mean any offence, but it is mildly offputting to have rather strong statements written in a form of pigeon english!
Anyway, I think it's good that people are honest about this kind of issue, so we can help deal with it as a group of people who are all in the same boat in a world where persuit of spiritual matters can seem rather alien to the way most people live their lives.
The reason I first joined subud is that both my parents, and my step-parent are members of Subud, and I noticed from a young age something quite 'different' about them, like a spark that I didn't notice in other people, as if they seemed to be 'more alive'. It's difficult to describe as it's more of a feeling than something I thought about. When I turned 17 I joined Subud on this basis, and also because it just 'felt right', I always had a good feeling about it and just followed that feeling. As I have gone in with the latihan, I have definitely felt as if I have a 'life within a life', which really appreciates me doing the latihan. Whenever I miss the latihan for any length of time, I really get to know about it too, I feel much more heavy, and like I'm denying myself something I really need. This isn't to say that I've always been perfectly dilligent with the latihan at all times, as being a human being, I have let my thoughts + heart get in the way, 'no Lorenzo, you have far more important things to do!', I'm sure you all know the feeling! That feeling of heaviness associated with it though has always obliged me to return as soon as possible, feeling rather disappointed with myself for having been away for too long (the longest I've been away from it is a month, and boy did I feel awful then!)
I really appreciate that people are honest about these kinds of things , I think it's wonderful that these kind of issues that are very Subud-specific can be addressed somewhere!
and finally, Lorenzo asks that Sergio may forgive him for anything he has said that may have upset him. |
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Post subject: Why I do the latihan???
Posted: May 25, 2003 - 01:39 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 60
Location: Copenhagen
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.............Why do I do the latihan?
... a very good question that we all are trying to answer as good as possible. I find sometimes that it is a bit hard to put words on all the feelings the latihan brings up in me, but I am beginning to find out that the more I explain about the Latihan, and about Subud, the easier it gets.
So for my own sake, and also for sharing with others, here is why I do the latihan:
The last time I have truly felt the importance of my latihan. The last six months I have been working A LOT, and suddenly one day I felt that I was so beside myself that it was hard to do any of the things I used to do; play the piano, sing, go out with friends, paint, draw.
All I could do is workworkworkworkwork...
It felt terrible. I was doing latihan(for the first time in weeks) and I spontaneously felt the question come up "What can I do to get closer to myself again". I asked the question in my latihan(instead of testing about it afterwards) since it came so spontaneously. And I felt that I should go into the world, discover its beauty, take a lot of photos, draw, paint... And so I did.
A few days after that I quit my job, and went away for a month. I wen to Holland, to see friends, go to the national congress and visit family. When I sat in the train on my way to Amsterdam, I truly felt that I was FREEEEE, and that was great. I was able to enjoy every little thing along the way the beauty of a tree, holding a friends hand, singing a tune while playing guitar.... I had several days where I just enjoyed BEING IN THIS WORLD, and didn't worry about anything, no stress, no worrying about the future.
The latihan helps me find out what is good for me, and by doing all these things, I feel more relaxed and confident in myself.
I have been opened since last summer, and it took a while to discover how valuable the latihan really is. Funny, once again, you don't know what you've got till it's gone... not that I ever stopped doing latihan, but after a break you really get to appreciate it!
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Post subject:
Posted: May 28, 2003 - 07:18 AM
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Divinely Inspired
Joined: Sep 17, 2002
Posts: 93
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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I do the latihan to help my sanity - and for heaven's sake!  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 13, 2003 - 09:43 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Jul 13, 2003
Posts: 10
Location: London, England
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As being new to SubudLife I thought i might as well add my own opinion to the question.
I was opened "unofficially" (as they call it) Last June 17th when I awoke one night, and was spontaniously opened by God, (waking mum, dad and my brother in the process, by shouting 'forgive me Lord' at the top of my voice). After that I was "officially" opened on June 22nd. (feeling nothing of course when it happened).
Anyway back to the point, I think the main reason In why I do the latihan is to worship God, To thank God for creating me. It is to allow God to put right what is wrong within me, so i can become a better person. |
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Post subject: why
Posted: Jul 17, 2003 - 09:45 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Jun 23, 2002
Posts: 13
Location: VA, U.S.
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I would first like to say that it's really great to hear all of the different views and a nice feeling to be a part of this.
I personally keep doing latihan because I have found that when I do latihan on a regular basis and as surrendered as I can be at this time in my life, I feel the growth inside of me pertaining to so many different aspects in my life. I also realize that there is so much more to learn that I don't want to stop and revert back to the begining again of re-learning how to get quiet and all that my inner is learning.
I had felt I was in this same process of growth some years ago and had stopped going to latihan for a time for many different reasons and now that I have been going back regularly, have really felt so thankful that there is this opportunity to really learn about life in all it's glory and how it is so easy to feel overwhelmed without the latihan. It simply is an exercise that when it's not used, I feel it takes you back (adds the weight back on) I have found it so important to really learn about the many different forces that are constantly there waiting to take part in thought processes and feelings to bring in the questioning, anxiety, laziness, depression, etc. and to learn how I personally react to all these things when I am not guiding myself from my inner is truly a blessing and what I beleive to be the ultimate way in living here on this earth.
I remind myself quite often how much greater the spiritual world is from this one and this keeps me going because it helps me to keep in check what I allow to upset me or take over my peace and patience...
I feel as though my senses are slowly being awakened and allows my interaction with others to go deeper, even if they aren't in Subud.
As far as going to the group for social reasons - it's definitely wonderful to see other people and our small group of mainly three doesn't really make it a social event rather, latihan for me is more profound in the group and I really feel that,that's the reason to go- I have found some members who attend church here in the U.S. quite dissappointed by the lack of social quality to our latihan group and thus are less inclined to go to the group to do latihan and I believe that it's the development of one's latihan that should be the deciding factor to go to the group - especially for new members. There are so many wonderful testings one can do with other group members to use as a guide for where we are and where God would like us to be in our process and what we can do to keep going. I don't mean at all to try to further ourselves faster than God's will but that testing is a wonderful tool to use, for example how our latihan is and where it could be. This is one rather great benefit to being in the group since testing alone can leave lingering questions....
I could go on forever!
Thanks for the forum! |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 02, 2003 - 09:43 PM
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Jiwa Walker
Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 7
Location: UK
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Wow, what a topic. Thanks for posting this, Harun.
I was deeply ambivalent about Subud and the latihan as a teenager, having grown up in a Subud family. I really didn't see the relevance to my own life or who I was...
Then I met a lot of young people in Subud when I was 21 and thought that there was a very special quality about a lot of the people I met, and realised that there was an area of my life that was lacking; so I got opened, but my life carried on pretty much as normal. I didn't attend that regularly - mainly because of work commitments (or so I told myself at the time) and the rest of my life really wasn't that affected, regardless of some amazing experiences. It was as if the latihan was at the edges of my life.
A few months ago, though, I went through some fairly major life changes and completely reassessed what was important to me. I had some latihans during that period that completely humbled me and made me realise what was truly important - it was as if the latihan had slowly crept up on me to a point where I had to come to terms with the fact that the life I'd lived up until that point really wasn't in tune with who I was or what I needed. As a result, I've not only become much more regular in getting to latihan but also in terms of trying to live it in my everyday life... a much harder prospect than relegating it to a saturday night activity! It has really led me to question the fundamental aspects of who I am, who I was and who I am trying to be. Damn hard work too.
Going to Subud gatherings has always been a lovely social thing, but within my group less so, although the members have all been so welcoming... my social and spiritual lives have always been pretty separate - but knowing I can share experiences with other people is very reassuring.
For me, it's a way of centering myself in who I truly am rather than what other people want me/expect me to be; and a way of finding out how I should be in my life. Trying to live the latihan rather than just doing it though sometimes feels like a really uphill struggle; the light it brings makes it worthwhile. It's not always easy - sometimes it's so joyful it's hard to contain all the happiness I feel and sometimes so hard when you're brought up in front of your shortcomings - but it's the pillar of my life. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 12, 2003 - 09:35 PM
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Site Admin
Joined: Jun 06, 2002
Posts: 12
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Hello all, hope you are all having a good Ramadan, for those fasting and not fasting.
Why do I do Latihan?
I don't know what I would do without it, honestly. Luckily, when I got opened 9 years ago I had lived in a Subud community (Amanecer) where there was a lot of discussion and openess about the Latihan, and I was able to listen to many Bapak talks before, so I was well aware of what I was getting into.
Throughout the hards times I've passed through, the Latihan has been the only thing that has truly gotten me through it all, although it is only until now that I am really giving credit to it.
I must say, that I refused to go to Latihan regularly over a period of more than a year because I didn't agree with certain attitudes and actions of certain Subud members, and I didn't want to be associated with them. In the end, I was only doing harm to myself, by not going enough.
It has only been recently that I really see the great importance of Latihan, of its guidance and of its benefit. A week without Latihan for me, is a week lost, a week without guidance. My life also seems to take on its own life when I feel connected; things just seem to work, to click, to flow and to work out in the most bizarre ways. God, through the Latihan, can truly work wonders. |
Last edited by Valencia on Dec 10, 2006 - 10:45 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Post subject:
Posted: Jan 20, 2004 - 11:34 PM
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Directed Jiwa
Joined: Nov 13, 2003
Posts: 38
Location: UK
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I just wrote a huge post, and then the connection broke and I lost it! However, I realised that I have a lot to say on the matter, maybe u should look out for an article in the journal! I know that my life would lack the purpose, the sense of wonder and the feeling of amazement if I were to stop the latihan, and disassociate myself from Subud. I see it as a true blessing in my life, and a chance to really grow throughout my earthly existance, so I trust in it  . Stu x. |
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